Podcast Episode 26 – Rediscovering the trails and tales of Sierra Explorer William Brewer
hey good afternoon everyone this is Charlie Panky Sierra Rec magazine again thank you for joining us today our Sierra Rec Now podcast we hope the Sierra is within your view or in your future plans uh because we are excited about summer it’s a bluebird sky here in the Carson Valley today but my SES are already set on a backpacking trip that I’m taking in seoa National Park next Tuesday uh when you guys get this this podcast matter of fact because it’s going to be Tuesday I will be in seoa backpacking and lo and behold I’ll be back backpacking a route that two gentlemen that I have with me today just did on a series that I’m just excited to bring to you today I want to introduce to you Richard cliff and Elvis Elvis is it Foo I say that wrong that’s correct all right elu um who I met through YouTube uh on this channel and they are doing or just finished a amazing series on uh William Brewer uh and the trail some of the explorations of William Brewer’s first first trip through the sieras and the Peaks that they he uh named and conquered with his crew um and I look forward to telling that story today Richard Elvis thanks for joining us thanks for having us thank you yes looking forward to having a good chat absolutely and I think we just talked before you guys are both kind of from the Bay Area correct that’s right yes yes we we’re both uh uh Engineers of Silicon Valley hardware Engineers Engineers okay so you’re not historian that the way your videos are done I thought you guys were historians no the history is a hobby oh the history is a hobby okay very good I can appreciate that so uh Richard maybe real quick if I just start with you um if some of our our guests don’t know who William Brewer is we’ll kind of get into that maybe you can introduce your project and uh how you guys came up with this idea and and kind of got started in this all right yeah so uh Elvis and I have been backpacking in the sieras for about 10 years um our wives are good hikers but they’re not backpack ERS and uh so uh uh we we team up every year and do a do a long backpacking trip um seven to up to 10 days um and we’ve been sort of systematically working our way North through Kings Canyon through Jomo Wilderness up to uh uh up to further further north um and uh uh we make YouTube videos of our our exploits and and I have I have a a Channel with a modest number of of subscribers um and then a few years ago I kind of got a bit uh uh derailed or sidetracked uh because I uh I came across this this this book called up and down California uh and it’s a a book that was compiled of letters that um an earlier explorer wrote uh um to his brother in in New England about about his experiences in uh well in fact all over California um and it covers the uh the Whitney survey of 1860 to 1864 basically California um uh commissioned a survey uh and and hired a Josiah Whitney to to lead this organization because they were looking gold was running out and they were looking for what else can we monetize out of our newly formed State and Josiah Whitney had a a grand a view he was he was a a Visionary but a poor politician but he he took their their remit it was really focused more on minerals and and uh what else could we dig out of the ground and instead of just hiring U Miners and um uh and geologists he he hired botanists and cartographers and a wide range of people and he hired a fellow from New England called William Brewer who uh uh to lead the field Expedition um and over four and a half years they they traveled something like 11,000 miles up and down California um exploring the the the entire State pretty much um yeah I was read you watching your video I saw it was a brewer Hoffman The Gardener King and cotter is that that the five that guys okay that’s the Five Guys of that survey I knew Hoffman’s work from yuse me and then like there so yeah and then Elvis how did how did how when you’re watching the video you seem to have this uh this little knack for history that you tell the story are you the are the history buff of the two or you both history buff no I I’m not uh as historian as Richard I’m just there to make sure Richard is uh survive oh the survival pack I like it very good the last episode I watched you guys were walking you were trying to hike up the backside of Mount sullon uh Gran and you guys you know it was it was a struggle you guys were you’re going I think it’s like 2500 feet right that you have to go up to the lake there um and uh it was pretty comical because you were very real which I really truly experienced I’m a big guy so when I backpack I huff and puff and just make it there right yeah we start out uh uh before uh the Before Dawn right to try to make sure we uh get up there before the Sun get uh we can see the sun sunrise so it was super cool so yeah you’ve got to watch the video the sun they watched actually Sunrise from the top of Mount silon yeah we just make it like five minutes it’s that well worth the visit there that’s great well my question for you guys is this I mean history I mean I read a book uh it’s kind of funny you may have seen this to there’s a book called The Switchback Trails across the Sierra by Mary Roser she’s a a pack station from the East side and she tells the stories a lot from the Packers you know and the mule guys and she tells this story of BR Brewer in like her first you know four chapters about the survey and and they were kind of the race for Mount Whitney if you will in the whole crisscross and it caught my attention that these guys were before before Mir right mir’s still a pretty young lad Crossing more on stock and doing stock runs across the SE this time um and uh so these guys are the original explorers he hasn’t even shown up yet he hasn’t exactly so and that was part of what inspired me here was because M rightly so is everyone knows about John mure and and and the great things that that he he did um but there are these these other explorers in particularly uh Brewer and Co who are even preceded uh mure who are um not that well known unless you’re sort of into the the hiking of Mount Brewer or the other mountains that are named after these five all five of them have a mountain named after them but beyond that no one’s heard of any of them and so part of our mission was to to raise their visibility a bit because they were just as great explorers as uh as M was absolutely so that that is what about 170 years ago it I didn’t do my math right before I do that it’s a yeah about about 15 somewhere that that range so it’s amazing how fast that history disappeared from from uh our own landscape especially our Digital World nowaday right so yeah right well let me talk about that Journey then if you if we just stay I know you guys have I probably could spend multiple episodes talking about backpacking this here because that’s gets me keked out but uh I kind of want to focus in on this trip that you guys did it w it it was uh five videos right that you guys have done but how many days were you guys actually on trail to shoot this kind of historical reference video it was about 10 or 11 days okay yeah so you guys and how many miles was it cuz you start somewhere near um uh Jin Lake W is correct yeah it was Big Meadows is where we started and uh Roads End in King’s Canyon is where we ended up uh we had to uh ask a favor of my my wife to uh uh drop us off because there was no way anyone you we were doing something that was totally different to people normally do and and I I uh uh put out requests of you know does anyone know of any taxi service or what have you to do an end to end route and people just said well why don’t you just change your route and I said well we can’t really do that it’s not what we’re trying to get done right so ch’s probably about 50 something 50 something okay perfect that’s that’s a good guess but it’s not a straight line if you look at your map I mean you guys you guys kind of you know do do some s-curves and you you’ve done some offshoots where you found you know uh maybe a little easier route than maybe it was described because again there’s no real trail map that you’re following it’s just the words of journals correct yes fortunately Brewer was was uh being a scientist was fastidious in his documentation unlike uh Clarence King who Al also wrot wrote a book and of course mure where they they talk far more poetically and and and King talks in a much sort of um a more exciting uh turn of phrase but you have no idea where they are uh bre was very specific uh you could you could we could follow where he went their strategy was well really you know there’s a big mountain over there let’s let’s go climb that and see what we can see and then from that fig figure it out as it went along but with no Maps no com uh no no GPS no Trails um you know they didn’t necessarily go the easiest route to to say the least and uh um Elvis was was was key in in he’s he’s a uh Trail Navigator and you know he would he would look at this and say whoa there’s no way we can do that because we’re not great Mountaineers we’re just average average hikers and so numerous times we had to uh make diversions I don’t know obvious you want to give an example of of of where we uh had to uh come up with a different version of the route yeah we always need to uh uh I I think it’s quite common which is that we change our route uh as we go so that that’s the fun part of it I I I think I remember one point you said something like they wanted us to climb 7,000 feet in seven miles that’s not happening something like that it was I was like that is just real right there right that’s my buddy and I hike he would do the same thing goes we are not doing that man is funny like uh we had a short memory so every time you know when we go back we forget how painful it was yes yes like child birth hik hiking is like child birth I shouldn’t say that the women are going to get mad at me you know it’s a little bit like that you forget remember we get to the top somehow somehow well so let’s talk about the experience some of the things you guys found on trail I mean what was what was was there a like a peak Peak that you liked most I mean you you guys obviously love the sun sunrise at you know Solon uh Peak there is there anything that stands out to you from a past or Peak that kind of kind of took your breath away maybe well there was this really cool point after we’d left Jenny Lakes uh and we were uh we came to a pass to head down a valley to silon and we saw a view uh and suddenly I looked at this and we never been in this area before and I thought that looks familiar and then I I look through my my phone and Charles Hoffman who was a a big um Sketcher had sketched a a view of silon exactly from the same point oh wow and so that was sort of like you know history in today merging merging together and one of the things that always really appealed to me about this whole project was you know we come from completely different worlds uh we have all our you know high-tech gear they had blankets and mules to carry their their equipment and uh and and lived on uh dried Venison and dried bare meat and we have our more you know high-tech foods but the experiences we have as we come over a come over a past and you see this whole new playground before you um is exactly the same and it’s written in the in in the Brewer book they talk about the sparkling granite and the and the waterfalls and the lakes Etc and and we as hikers particularly when we go into areas we’ve never been before have exactly the same thrill and experience they had all those years ago I completely agree obviously so CH are you asking any P or yeah that you’ve done in on this trip was there anything that kind of so uh for me that will be Julia Caesar okay yeah because that’s the first Peak we back okay the first one the first one was the best I yeah yeah yeah so we uh yeah that had quite an impression quite an impression yeah that that’s fantastic uh Richard you shared with me actually just you know share with the readers I I made a comment on their video and Richard was sharing me that Lost Lake was the start of the first fire on seoa in record because they actually started their own fire on a campfire at last lake is that that correct well they uh being first there you know they created a lot of first including a forest when the when the campsite got out of control the campfire got out of control unfortunately managed to put it out uh but there are all these little gems in the in the book of of real life experiences there’s a there’s also an account somewhere it’s not in in this this part of the of the book where Brewer says I I woke up in the morning and there was three inches of snow on my blanket you just think my goodness you know what time of year that was I mean that’s that’s what that’s real in the year right the wake up with thunderstorms or snow yeah yeah it was June I think so it was like they were I’m actually worried about it next week it’s going to drop temperature down a little bit I’m going I’m going be getting freezing funny there’s another funny story they they usually overwintered in San Francisco and um one year they they uh in San Francisco they started the first um um um cruise around the bay a ship had been built for this and so they went on the maiden voyage of this cruise around the bay and and it became the first uh rescue because the the cruise ship hit a hit a rock somewhere near Alcatraz and sank oh that is great so Brewer is a man of first he was he was an inogram 7even he just go right so so if I read right Brewer wasn’t from the West right he grew up in the East uh went to is it itha college or something like then like geology okay yeah he was he was a grew up on a farm and went to college to really study and and perfect farming for his his his family but he he was a good student and and became a professor uh he got married and had a child and so you know that was going to be his life in in in New England and then uh tragically um his his wife and son died and so suddenly his his whole life trajectory just uh ended up uh dangling and that was the time when Josiah Whitney approached him and said would you like to uh to to come out and Lead this exped ition and he spent some time in in Europe um hiking in the Alps when he was studying there so he he got the mountain bug uh uh previously yeah so you are you two hiking this Trail I I know I’ve watched uh I watched the last episode I know know how that ends you have to go watch YouTube I’m not going to spoil it for anybody uh but your goal was to make it to Mount Brewer uh on this route um and at one point in the video series it looks like you had to do a pretty big detour like a me like a two-day detour round a section because it just was too difficult can you explain to when you know kind of it as here’s what I’m thinking is your first time Explorer in the Sierra you’re following a route you’ve never been on before you sometimes face obstacles that you just weren’t expecting what was that like for you guys knowing that you had a mission you’re trying to follow this path but you just kind of face something there was like there’s there’s just no what right so you want to answer that one El why don’t you take this one so so so this is the 7,000 ft no way situation we were going to hike hike up to Big Brewer Lake and then do Mount Brewer and then come back over the silon pass and we just really weren’t sure how uh whether we would get up to Big Brewer Lake and if we got stuck then you know that would kind of undermine the whole project so we did this huge detour round um to the silon creek and up to the silon Lakes which are AB abolutely gorgeous it was a um a great find and then we dayhike from camon Lakes over silon pass and then up to up to Brewer um but it was it was like a multi-day detour in order to U in order to make that work you know what’s great about that and Elvis you want to add on to this too is that you guys did discover those Lakes as part that weren’t part of your journey that’s one of my favorite things when I’m exploring Seer is I love getting off Trail a little bit or I’ll be looking at the map going hey there’s a lake right over here we should go check it out and it’s like that was my favorite part of the trip right sometimes yeah we we should did that a lot and I’m the on like rejected those proposal you’re you’re checking the facts huh keep it real I like it so if I can do get to know you guys this we only have 15 more minutes so but if I can get to know you guys a little bit more you’ve hiked all over the Sierra where would you rake this kind of hike in in all the things that you’ve seen in the Kings Canyon John M Trail I mean is this there something that you recommend maybe not this route but that at least that area of of the Sierra well certainly it’s a it’s a great area to explore in fact we we plan to go back this summer and uh and kind of uh uh continue where we where we left off uh because there is this story of Clarence King having having seen Whitney in the distance and then them having named it after Josiah Whitney he was determined he was going to the first to the top and he begged Brewer uh to to let him and and Dick Cotter go hike there and climb it and and Brewer Brewer said uh you’ve got to be kidding me he says that’s miles away and there’s this huge mountain range called The King’s Kern divide between us he says there’s no chance eventually he relented and he said well you’ve got six days and if you’re not back in six days I’ll just post your uh aiter in the San Francisco Chronicle uh because they only had six days worth of supplies left yeah um so we’re going to continue that so that will be exciting but Elvis what would you say is your favorite of all the hikes we’ve done what which would you list is the the place you like the most I like uh South Lake to North Lake you know uh on the east side right yeah yeah that was like those uh kind of the early Adventure that we get into this whole uh the exploration uh so and then also that particular round I got to see many different things uh and scener of course yeah yeah pretty up there for certain a lot of lot of lot of readers that come up and do that that Basin right there especially South Lake you know uh in that area so that’s a long way for you guys around the bay though you’re driving all the way down south on the current and come around or you guys wait till you opens and cross over yeah it’s something like that it takes a usually it takes a days to get to the place get get over there that makes sense usually do our hike sort of late August because the bugs are gone by then or mostly gone so so we go through either y or over 108 nice I’d say my favorite hike we’ve done is the is the bear Lakes um which is uh um in the jam Wilderness that was the first time we we did any significant cross country which was okay quite problematic to start off with because we kept ending up on the wrong Ridge and all over the place but after a while we mastered it but but the advantage of being able to cross country is is you get to lakes that are not that traveled and yeah that was spectacular we we had on the show a little while back and another guy I follow Lakes of Yus he talks about that quite a bit because he’s he’s trying to photograph every Lake in yuse is part of a documentary as well and uh one of the things he talks about that always caught my attention is that when you go off Trail you you can see a mountain and you can go you can travel across Granite but you just can’t see the 10ft Cliff that is no big deal but if you’re by yourself you’re not going down that 10- foot cliff you may have to turn around and walk 30 minutes back to get around something that you could you can’t see and I imagine that you guys ran into things like this on this journey where you got the place and going this was the wrong way you’re telling stories that way El was is laughing oh yeah yeah oh my goodness uh what was that uh wish if that was a white bear pth right oh yes yes yes and then we should did all the research and then pretty sure you know we can get through that pretty easily it turn out like uh to us you know getting down I’m not talking about going upward we’re going going downward we we we keep running into the clip just like what you say because there’s no way we can see from the from the map uh because if if this is just 10 feet or 20 feet we cannot cross already and it won’t show up on any Terrain map that we we we can buy so it end UPS took us what uh like three hours to just travel one mile something like that that’s slow yeah that’s definitely slow that’s going to be painful if you’re you’re in four or five days into your trip and now all go go go there see the clip and then we have to go back oh gosh that’s funny I I love the reaction elvas cuz I you I can tell you have lots of stories to tell of you guys going off Trail Adventures uh great combination there so is there anything about Brewer or this team’s group that you guys found inspiring after doing this that that maybe changes the way that you look at exploring this SI yourself that’s an interesting question um I was impressed at how rugged they were um you know they weren’t like mountain men they were all uh College professors pretty much uh but they were tough uh so our our respect for them sort of steadily grew day by day as we’re you know dodging the the bits that they climbed I mean the way they climbed out camon was was there’s no way we could do it that way we had to go up the you know the Steep Granite slope uh so uh certainly certainly that was was was fascinating to me yeah I I I second Richard and so we we read the book and uh also experience leave the book right so all the words become actions like just leave out of the page so yeah yeah I think that’s the best way to experience that book I I think that’s a great skill set like I’ve been hiking all my life really but I’ve never followed somebody else’s Journal right I’ve always had Maps or some of those videos and i’ you know I’ve had to figure some things out but I’ve never followed someone else’s path that’s got to be a very unique feeling to go okay you take me where you went and try to figure that out because yeah I if it is your first time you know going off Trail especially you just don’t know what’s 200 yards ahead sometimes and and you just got to figure it out right you you’re you know my buddy likes to give me a hard time because I don’t read the uh the the 50 yard you know meter lines very well sometimes he goes that’s a little steep don’t you think I go no didn’t look that bad it’s short but it was a little harder when it got there so well I I think your buddy is Elvis and you are me in that it might be it might be I tend to be the one that get us in trouble that’s for certain so but so if you guys are going to take off again this this year is there a way are you going to start at Brewer and then forward or is there a way quicker in there or you got to you know take that whole hike in again and then take off from there how you guys going to continue so we’re going to come in from the East over the k pass and up to uh East Lake and Lake reflection and we’re going to climb Brewer that way which is the more the the most popular way that people climb that’s the popular right exactly um and then come back and then we’ve got to then we’ve got to find a way over the the king’s Kern uh divide of which there are uh about four or five passes in quotes uh and in the process of trying to figure out which is the least sketchy gotta I I I personally have never researched that divide because I you know here it’s pretty hard yeah well I mean it was 60 years after Brewer before a proper pass was built over it which was Forester pass on the on the JN Trail and you know they needed the Army Corp of Engineers to do some blasting in order to make it possible yeah wasn’t that uh was it Benson out of euse that they hired to come that that originally built that trail over Forester all the way Whitney is that Am I Wrong have been yeah I want to say he he was a lead lead you know cuz uh um army cor Engineers I’m pretty sure he was leading at that time but uh if that’s was all in this book I was reading too so I’m fresh history I’m trying to read pick up so I I up and down California I haven’t heard that book so I’m have to take check that one out it sounds pretty good many people have said it’s the best um historical record of California in the 1860s period the but you know when he goes through he talks about you know being sort of mixed agriculture of orchards as well as some Vineyards and um talks about that you know the hot springs and then he also um uh resolved a big dispute as to how high mount shaster actually was because there was a big debate so he went and climbed it and the way they measured the mountains was they would uh they had these long thin tubes were field barometers and they would hike up to the top and measure the air pressure to which you would say well what happens if if the pressure changes you know with the weather so they had a guy then at the bottom who also had uh a barometer and they would take measurements you know every 15 minutes uh and that’s how they I never heard of that that’s fantastic story know that that’s great um guys I’m going to apologize we’re we’re coming up on a half hour already my show show is a half hour and I feel like we should do like part two three four and five like you did your videos probably on on the subject uh because I think I would love to talk to you guys more about about kimman um let me ask you this question here I’ve got three quick questions that I’ll ask you guys um now that you’ve started and done this project are there other histor historical figures now that you’ve kind of started rattling your brain going man I want to I wonder what that was like or that path would be have you have identified other things your next are are you those type of guys that have a next already well on the history side um uh the the John M Trail when it was initially conceived went a very different way to where it goes now yeah and so I think that could be a very good awesome awesome all right so before I get to my final questions let me do a little quick shout out to your YouTube channel look up Richard cliff on on YouTube uh the whole series for um Brewer is on there um he’s got all kinds of other great hiking videos so you know if you’re listening to me and you you like the Sierra and about you like to hike Eastern Sierra in that southern region especially uh Richard and Elvis have some great uh great stories there uh I’m sure you’ll enjoy following them there too yeah oh okay did not know that there you go Richard Cliff the Sierra backpack you like that so all right oh you find more with Elvis too we find Elvis perfect okay that works yeah with Elvis we we got a whole different world there so I have three questions I ask all my guests I’m G ask both you guys to answer these okay so they’re really simple fun but we all we’re all Explorers right so let’s let’s uh the first question is this let’s say your bag is packed on the floor right now and you you have a week to go anywhere in this year that you want to go where you going someplace I love that no someplace new perfect Elvis same same okay all right very good that’s almost a cheat you guys are doing that I like it all right well me me personally when I come off the trail I’m always just starving for a cheeseburger and a milkshake uh so I’m talking either the best trail food to have or your best after Adventure meal that you have to have what your go to oh I have to go first popcorn popcorn you were you were doing popcorn in the video I was going how is he doing popcorn in the back country that’s awesome as [Laughter] wi easy yep fantastic Richard big juicy Hamburg is pretty awesome right so that’s fantastic all right final question for you piece of gear that you never leave home without what’s like your go-to piece of gear that you just have to have H good question huh a hot one do you have a favorite piece of gear like well your popcorn maker is going to be your favorite piece of gear sounds like so favorite piece of GE I want to get a chair but I never got one they’re overrated I I have one now too I don’t even like putting in [Laughter] my yeah okay oh yes you’re right yep okay that’s what I was telling beforehand I saw you guys making you made your own tortilla bread things and and pancakes on the trail like that’s in genius I never thought about that that is great well fishing pole a fishing pole I did see the fishing pole there you go fishing pole with the fish I that’s one thing I have not taken up yet in the Sierra and I every time I go out I see a fly fisherman on a lake by himself go I should do that that’s that looks like fun so very good gentlemen I I do I wish I had an hour to spend with you I want to thank you so much for joining me today I I’ll continue the conversation with you maybe we’ll get it join up again some another time and talk about the Sierra and some other trips but uh I really loved your series I hope uh this helps Drive some more people to see and learned about Mr Brewer and his team and the journey that you guys were on but uh I want to thank you very much for joining us today thank you absolutely and if you’re out there today and you’re just listening to our show for first time we we’re we also have Sierra Rick Magazine online we have a six six time a year Magazine’s free sign up online uh join this every Tuesday but we are sure glad glad that you’re here just hit the like And subscribe button down below little Bingle Jingle Bell will’ll let you know next episode but uh we’re sure sure excited to have these guys with us we hope the sier is in your future have a great summer and go explore
Retracing the Sierra: Tales from the Trail with Richard Cliffe and Elvis Fu | Sierra REC Now Podcast
Join us on an extraordinary journey through the Sierra Nevada as we dive into the rich history and breathtaking landscapes explored by the original trail survey crew led by William Brewer. In this special episode of the Sierra REC Now Podcast, our guests Richard Cliffe and Elvis Fu take us back in time as they retrace and rediscover the incredible adventures documented in Brewer’s journals.
Richard and Elvis have embarked on a remarkable quest to follow the footsteps of Brewer and his crew, meticulously documented in works like “Up and Down California.” Through their 5-part YouTube series, they bring to life the awe-inspiring route from Jennie Lakes Wilderness to Brewers Peak, sharing their experiences and the profound connections they’ve made with the history and natural beauty of the Sierra.
Tune in as we discuss the fascinating tales from their journey, the thrilling discoveries, and the enduring legacy of William Brewer’s explorations. Whether you’re a history buff, an outdoor enthusiast, or simply love a good adventure story, this episode is packed with insights and inspiration that will deepen your appreciation for the Sierra Nevada.
Don’t miss out on this captivating conversation!
Highlights:
The incredible history of William Brewer and his trail survey crew
Richard and Elvis’s journey following Brewer’s journal entries
Behind-the-scenes stories from their YouTube series documenting the route from Jennie Lakes Wilderness to Brewers Peak
Insights into the discoveries that continue to shape our enjoyment of the Sierra today
Watch the 5-part YouTube series here: https://www.youtube.com/@richardcliff3510
Subscribe to Sierra REC Now for more episodes: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IPjZi6SaDl93sDFb5oFpX
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